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Word on P3DV2?

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#1 Rob Ainscough

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 04:16 am

Are you gents planning on anything specific to P3DV2?  Or waiting for the dust to settle before making any commitments?

 

Cheers, Rob.


Rob.


#2 Too Low Terrain

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 09:52 am

Hello Rob.

 

 I to would like to know where Sim 720 stand with P3DV2 right now. 

 I wouldn't be suprised if some problems have been discovered. It appears from looking around at some of the other forums, that it's going to take a lot more to just adding an installer to make some fsx addons work in P3DV2. 

 Having tried some fsx addons in P3D, I've found out that there are a lot of incompatabilities - some very minor (scenery lights not working), where as some are very serious (results in CTD).

 It would be interesting to know whether Sim 720 have encountered any problems? ;)

 

 Martin :blink:



#3 Paul Webster

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 09:56 am

Hello Rob.

 

 I to would like to know where Sim 720 stand with P3DV2 right now. 

 I wouldn't be suprised if some problems have been discovered. It appears from looking around at some of the other forums, that it's going to take a lot more to just adding an installer to make some fsx addons work in P3DV2. 

 Having tried some fsx addons in P3D, I've found out that there are a lot of incompatabilities - some very minor (scenery lights not working), where as some are very serious (results in CTD).

 It would be interesting to know whether Sim 720 have encountered any problems? ;)

 

 Martin :blink:

Hi,

 

The only problems we are aware of is with runway lights not showing at a distance and papi lights not work at all.

If you find anything else please let us know

 

Paul

 

p.s. @Rob waiting for the dust to settle before deciding anything



#4 Too Low Terrain

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 12:01 pm

Hello Paul, thanks for getting back so quickly.

 

I think that UK2000 has a similar problem with the lights, so maybe it's a common problem?

In one respect though, it's good to know that the problems that you have encountered so far are minor. (so it looks to me)

I've yet to buy any Sim 720 addons yet, but I do intend to once P3DV2 has become a bit more established.  ;)

 

all the best

 

Martin



#5 GordonH

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 12:07 pm

Hi,

 

The only problems we are aware of is with runway lights not showing at a distance and papi lights not work at all.

If you find anything else please let us know

 

Paul

 

p.s. @Rob waiting for the dust to settle before deciding anything

 

This seems to be the attitude of most devs at the moment, with LM also working on the v2.1 patch nobody seems to want to make a concrete commitment to P3Dv2 addon development/conversion of current addons - perhaps the customer base is too small at the moment to make it financially viable or is it just too soon to embrace the new platform?

 

I think there was also a wave of inaccurate optimism and information coming from certain developers (not SIM720) that their current products would transition seamlessly to v2 with only a new installer required....seems that isn't now the case and we are seeing some quite obvious backpedaling from certain devs - with some blaming last minute changes made to v2 before launch that weren't in the final beta version (taking that with a pinch of salt)

 

I hope this changes as I (and many others) have chosen to embrace P3Dv2 as their main flightsim platform from now onwards. I guess it's just FS9>FSX all over again - with the caveat that P3Dv2 will constantly be updated and supported.

 

Personally I won't be making anymore addon purchases from anyone until P3Dv2 compatibility is 100% assured - I realize this will take some time as work and investment is required by devs to make this happen, but I won't spend any more of my hard earned for products designed for an outdated platform when we have P3Dv2 available to us.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Lots of love for SIM720's products - I just can't invest in any more until the P3Dv2 issues have been (if they ever will be) rectified.

 

Cheers


Edited by GordonH, 15 December 2013 - 12:15 pm.

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#6 Too Low Terrain

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 05:27 pm

Hello Gordon

 

Yep, I agree with what you say. Some developers didn't get a chance to look at P3DV2, until the same time as we did. I can't blame them for raising our expectations, but I do know of one particular company that did, only to now go back on what they said (we know who they are, so I won't name them here).

 

Although P3DV2 is a modified version of fsx, I think it's best in a way, to look at P3DV2 as a new sim.

 

I think it's waiting game, all over again - it's one that I am willing to play though. ;)

 

Martin


Edited by Too Low Terrain, 15 December 2013 - 05:31 pm.


#7 Barry Hudson

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 05:48 pm

Hi Gordon and Martin, I agree with you it's a muddle, fsx has no support, P3d has some issues but a great future. As a gamer and simmer myself I can fully understand that you would not want to purchase until a clear picture / bugs are defined and sorted. However, with my other hat on as a developer I can also say that it's a difficult time, SIM720 employ full time all their development team, so sales are important for us to continue our vision.
We are hoping that our incorporation of being compatible with photo real etc and an openness to listen is endorsed by the community but only time will tell.
Thanks for your comments and hopefully we can get our products 100% as you say in P3d. Although knowing software we will only get 99.9% there is always something......
Thanks for your support and hopefully you stay committed with us on our journey.

#8 Rob Ainscough

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 06:27 pm

Well so far the problems with Sim720 products in P3DV2 have been very minor, no show stoppers for me.  Keep up the great work.
 
Bare in mind FSX had an SP1 and an SP2 ... LM are working on updates to P3DV2.x also that should help improve performance (SLi/Crossfire support) and stability.  There will also be a learning curve for development of P3DV2 as ... built for FSX will not work in P3DV2.
 
Also bare in mind that most products made for FSX are DX9 products and DX9 has a considerably different graphics API than DX11.  One BIG difference is the relative pixel/texel position offset (I'm guessing this is why we're seeing strange offsets and texture misalignment and textures getting stretched at the edges rather that seamless).  So now that DX11 doesn't need the texture offset what's actually going to happen with texture ... meaning how can it be resolved in code and if it is compensated for in code how's the actual output going to look?  
 
 
Here is a great article about what needs to happen moving from DX9 to DX10/11 ... note pixels and texels matching, no need to offset texture coordinates by 0.5 texel.
 
So there are going to be challenges that start at the 3D object/texture creation stage ... implications are obvious here ;) ... time/resources and money, hence the understandable caution.  BUT, I think those willing to take the risk, may put themselves ahead of the game when presented to the consumer market.  I can't see LM and P3D going away any time soon, defense contracts seem to have a lot of built in "fat" so to speak and P3D doesn't "appear" to be bound to any single defense contract.
 
My 2 cents, Rob.

Edited by Rob Ainscough, 15 December 2013 - 06:28 pm.

Rob.


#9 Christopher Low

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 07:03 pm

It's the developers that prattle on about EULAs that annoy me. You can't use this in P3D, you can't use that in P3D. Pathetic. That's the lawyers talking of course, so maybe I shouldn't be too hard on the developers themselves. Nevertheless, it is another obstacle put in front of FS9 and FSX users who are considering the possibility of moving across to P3Dv2. Flight1 have point blank denied permission for anyone to use any of their current products in P3Dv2, which is extremely annoying when the Flight1 Mustang is by far the aircraft that I fly most often in FSX, and Ultimate Traffic 2 is the AI package that I use :angry:

 

Then there's PMDG....

 

It's all very well saying that they will be releasing P3D versions of their existing products, but how much is it going to cost me to purchase a P3D license for the 737NGX? I have already paid 60 quid for the FSX version, and I get the feeling that I may have to pay that (or even more) all over again for a P3D "commercial license". After all, it will not be an "entertainment product" anymore :rolleyes:



#10 Barry Hudson

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 07:05 pm

Rob, lot of sense there... If I may your 2 cents transpired to a dollar for me....lol
What I can say to anyone reading this post, is that SIM720 do not have all the answers, far from it, but we are putting everything we have into our journey. As we said with our first product release under our name, we want to part of the community, we want interaction, we want to listen, we want to be in this space. With support we hope to be around for a long time.

#11 Christopher Low

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 07:41 pm

I hope that you do stick around for a long time, Barry. I really enjoy working with you guys.


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#12 Too Low Terrain

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 08:08 am

Couldn't agree with you more Barry. I think that most of us know that many developers don't have all the answers yet - as said earlier, it's best to look at P3DV2 as a new sim.

It will probably take a bit of time for things to settle down enough for developers to know what's what.

 

The EULA is a bit of a sticking point, but the way that I look at it -  if LM did not want the serious simmer to use P3D, then they would of made not available to us. My understanding is they don't want the casuals, or gammers to use this. It's not a game, and us simmers don't treat it like that.

 

I understand if developers want to hold off for the moment. It seems like a wise move, until LM get that service pack out. Dispite the negativity that has been displayed by some developers, I think that P3DV2 has a future. Whether the likes of PMDG being there though, I'm not sure. X plane users will probably (with exception to a few), will be happy to pay full price, but fsx users? I'm not so sure. :unsure:

 

Regards

 

Martin



#13 BG2518

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 08:48 am

Ok, I'm running P3D v2 and FSX.

 

I bought SIM720 airfields for use in FSX and had/have some problems of a "minor" nature and I FULLY expected that, not because SIM720 are not "up to scratch" but I'm yet to see ANY flightsim product either software or hardware be as good/perfect as anyone would hope.

 

This is just a simple fact of life and it is the nature of all human endeavour to strive for the best and simply FAIL in someway(s) or another.

 

I hear quite a few folk here and elsewhere not want to move on with P3D "yet" until 100% of something or another is 100% assured e.g. like taxes or death.

 

Well, I can say, 100% that SIM720 airfields work on P3D v2.  What the minor glitches are, I just don't know and I'll leave the digging for them and the striving to fix stuff I don't know about to the tallents of the developers to whom I really appreciate (bugs n' all).

 

It's not just about the money money (oh, I shall write a nice song about that!).

 

Now, y'all have a fantastic Xmas and try to enjoy the odd "out of memory" error or BSOD (remember, blue is a very nice colour).

 

It's at moments like this I wish I'd listened to what my father had told me..........


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#14 Barry Hudson

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 12:19 pm

BG2518, I reckon that song has legs.



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